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Post by Barbecue Chicken Wingers McGee on Jan 18, 2011 21:20:30 GMT
wait... Doing squats with not much weight makes you feel sick?
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Post by misame on Jan 18, 2011 21:23:27 GMT
wait... Doing squats with not much weight makes you feel sick? am sorry but... yes
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Post by Abstergo on Jan 19, 2011 12:28:03 GMT
Training in the gym isnt better than hell night just because of time efficiency, it's beter in general. Otherwise all these pro athletes who have all the time in the world wouldn't be in the gym, they'd be doing hell night esque training. I agree that hell night does help with mental strength, but if your training outside of hell night isnt mentally demanding and building mental strength, then what are you doing? Firstly, strength training in a gym shouldn't be a doddle - especially the main lift, you should be pushing yourself. Although slightly different, it still takes great mental strength to push through, for example, the last set of the main lift in 5/3/1, or to establish a new RM. It's the same for the assistance work, although it should be done dependent on how your main lift went, it shouldn't be a doddle and there is always exercises that you have to push yourself with - like pull ups. Secondly, your technical training shouldn't be a doddle either - yes it's fun but if you're training properly you will be pushing your mind. I remember being fried after a summer of training with Blane and Sam constantly.. we spent the whole summer breaking jumps and getting our minds into 'emergency states'. If you aren't pushing your mind in this way in both strength and technical training then you are missing out on a lot of lessons. One night of training to failure in almost everything, repeated week on end, will burn out your CNS. All these 'quick size' programmes that have you training to failure (which is the fastest way to get bigger), only last 4 weeks or so, because you need to take a deload - it's far too demanding. Training to failure, pushing your body where it's never been before, establishing new RMs etc is incredibly demanding on your CNS. Not to mention the fact that half of the people who took part in hell night don't know a thing about eating properly, it's just a recipie for being burnt out. LOL, I forgot about that. Very impressive man. I know you're not being argumentative Neither am I, I just think a bit of objective debate is healthy I also think it's interesting because we've had very similar training experiences with regard to conditioning When you say better in general, why do you think that is? I still think eficiency in terms of time is the main factor. (I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I train in a gym for my strength, I just think having all the facts out for the newer guys to read would be a good thing I agree with you about training when you say it shouldn't be a doddle, it really shouldn't and good parkour raining really isn't I do find however that Hell night did more for my mental fortitude than conventional gym training, maybe it's the added battle with adverse conditions. I'm still not sure I agree on the burning out issue, just because we did Hell Night for weeks on end and I never felt burned out, but that's just me, it could be different person to person.
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Post by Abstergo on Jan 19, 2011 12:29:56 GMT
Also, Dumi, if doing bodyweight squats makes you feel sick, weighted ones will be worse as you blood pressure will be higher and more of your blood supply will go to your muscles, so be careful.
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Post by Barbecue Chicken Wingers McGee on Jan 19, 2011 13:09:13 GMT
it could be different person to person. I think this is the key to all these arguments (not that it should stop you, but it stops me joining in )
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Post by Joe Rogan on Jan 19, 2011 13:22:47 GMT
You can get stronger in a gym than you can outside. That isnt opinion, that's fact. You have better access to equipment and tools inside a gym as well. You can do everything at hell night in a gym - just because you are in a gym does not mean you can't do chins, dips and push ups as these are still absolutely essential exercises that are praised by everyone, including people like Wendler and Defranco. The two best exercises at strengthening the lower body (squat and deadlift) can only (really) be done in a gym - yes you can do it with logs or a person, but you cant measure the logs and using a person wont exactly allow great technique - as can two/three of the best upper body exercises (bench, press and chins). You can manipilate all sorts of exercises using dumbbells to help with prehab, activating muscles in your shoulders and upper back to prevent injury as well as to keep everything balanced. The only things you cant really do.are climb ups and traverses, which again, should be done in your technical training anyway, as part of routes for example - parkour isnt just single movements.
If training outside was really better, then why havent the likes of Joe Defranco, Diesel Crew, Wendler, Mike Boyle etc.cottoned on to it for training their athletes. As for the mental strength arguments, take NFL players for example, they need mental strength, aggression etc and thats all been successfully built inside.
More for the mental side: the original hell nights were a lesson in how to work hard and push, plain and simple. once you've learnt how to push yourself, and what its like to be at that point were you want to puke, its hard to forget. just as when you are outside and faced with a jump, i know my mind is in control, i look at all the training ive done etc.
You shouldnt just be strength training either. conditioning (hill runs, sled drags, dumbbell/barbell complexes, car pushes, and my favourite: a constant parkourroute for a set amount of time) not only builds relevant cardio but also builds mental strength.
If its raining, snowing or whatever, cool, go outside and challenge yourself. there's nothib wrong with occassional changes.
Since weightlifting: i am stronger than ever, faster than ever, i can jump further and higher than ever, my body feels better/absolutely perfect when moving/dropping, i havent had any okind of knee, elbow or shoulder issues, my mental strength has.improved, my parkour has improved. My climb ups and muscle ups have improved. my traversing has improvex, my grip has improved. Never have i seen so much physical improvement in myself since strength training properly.
What use are you if you cant press heavy above your head, deadlift heavy objects etc. or if your body cant take thr movements you make because of lack of muscle, or if you cant push through pain barriers.
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Post by ron hill io on Jan 19, 2011 19:59:10 GMT
Righttttt, alot of information here to take in, and i can see where everyone's coming from. I think we should still have the hell nights and like Dan said it can help you bith physically and mentally, maybe not as much as a gym, but here's the main point... Its better than nothing Anyway, Tanzil, you up for this tomorrow? Think Jim should be out too
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Post by misame on Jan 19, 2011 20:02:47 GMT
If i had a barbell i would squat a lot but it would have to be low reps and a higher weight because i start to feel sick doing sqauats OK forget about that statement i was only feeling sick doing sqauts because i had eaten a heavy snack before and the heating was so i was getting very little oxygen, from now on i will just squat outside.
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Post by TankZILLA on Jan 19, 2011 21:12:41 GMT
Dumi, ur tooo funny.....
My status:
First of all Joe, im liking what you just said, and i think all this has convinced me about doing weight training. iv never wanted to do weights cozz of the strain it puts on the body and its after effects, but ur right, with training parkour, it also has a lot of strain on ur body and i always feel my elbows and knees. With regards to strength, im not really a strong guy, (quite skinny really) but i am fairly comfortable with my own body weight, (so i quite decent at doing pull ups muscle ups etc).
When hell night was on i went quite regularly for a good couple of months, and u lot are exactly right it was great for mental strength, and with everyone encouraging you on you can do so much more, (also apples to technical training). i also improved with the amount of reps i did in all the exercises, week in week out, and when for example i was to do a climb up during a route in technical training, the climb up would be second nature to me and id find it really easy. but now my climb ups are quite slow and i find the hard to do again. this is probably because, other then during technical training, i dont exercise much at the moment.
Soooooo how i will hopefully be training from now on will be, 2 week repeats Hell night once every 2 weeks to make my movement as efficient as possible That same week no other training but will be playing other sports badminton monday, cricket tuesday and football on fridays. And on the other week go gym to train weights, duno how or what exactly but i wana take it really slowly at first. Like joe said squats, dead lifts, bench press could be a starting point.
Iv only wrote all this down so its written down and gives me some sort of a plan, and obviously advice from all of you.
P.S Ronil Hell Night tomorrow, what time best for you?
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Post by Desmond on Jan 19, 2011 22:16:53 GMT
we start together...
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Post by ron hill io on Jan 19, 2011 22:33:24 GMT
Jim finally made a post ! Uhmm, i dunno yet, we'll tell ya tomorrow Tanzil
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Post by Joe Rogan on Jan 19, 2011 23:35:23 GMT
Sounds good Tanzil I'm glad you've rethought it! What do you mean about the strain it puts in the body and after effects of weight lifting? I'll help you setup a weightlifting template if you like. How many days a week would be best for you? 1, 2, 3?
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Post by TankZILLA on Jan 20, 2011 16:24:15 GMT
Joe, i tried weights back in second year of uni, and after a season and the next day my body used to ache, i found it hard to even put a phone to my ear without cramping up. i tried a couple of time but the most i lasted was for only 2 weeks then i gave up.
I know that at the beginning it will hurt then ur body will get used to it, so i just need to stick it out and now that iv got a better reason to train, then its more of an initiative.
Im thinking of going mondays wednesdays and fridays, so 3 times in the week, and yeah help with a template would be great.
SO "Hell Night" starts again today at 5 at Fat bar, (its probably more of an "Hell Evening", and probably not as "Hell..ing") but will take it slow.
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Post by Joe Rogan on Jan 20, 2011 19:51:03 GMT
Ok, i'll put together three full body workouts for those 3 days. Which gym are you going to, and do you know what equipment they have? barbell, squat rack and bench I'm assuming?
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Post by Abstergo on Jan 20, 2011 21:52:38 GMT
For the record Joe, I also am stronger than ever thanks to training in the gym Though every gym I've been to (quite a few) has had poor equipment for muscle ups!
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Post by TankZILLA on Jan 21, 2011 15:58:03 GMT
That will be brilliant, Thanks, iv still got membership at the John stanford gym near dmu until end of feb so im gona go there for now and stick to it if its good enough. yeah they have got quite a few thing including all the above and from what i remember it was decent (only cost me £43 for the year). i want to start training quite softly at the beginning coz il go gym at 9am then im gona be going work 2-10, so plan to start slow please
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Post by ron hill io on Jan 25, 2011 19:24:53 GMT
Plans for this week?
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Post by misame on Jan 25, 2011 19:59:39 GMT
OK so what time are these new hell nights/evenings are they earlier or later than before?
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Post by Desmond on Jan 25, 2011 22:16:36 GMT
plans for this week! sorry this is waaay late! we were discussing moving this to wednesday, and starting a little earlier due to the nature of the group now - hopefully this will mean more people will be able to stay for the full thing!
wednesday start @ 6pm maybe?
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Post by Desmond on Jan 26, 2011 22:35:01 GMT
However to clarify, we're making this week mostly as usual - Thursdays, Arrive BEFORE 7 so we can start, recommending 6.30 meetups for early starts...
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Post by ron hill io on Jan 27, 2011 7:17:26 GMT
Got parents evening today =|!
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Post by Desmond on Feb 15, 2011 22:35:32 GMT
Just a quick post to clarify - I'm running the Hell Nights Every Thursday...
it is a 7pm START so get there at 6.30 to meet!
routine is practically the same with some random additions but there is some discussion regarding removing the jog - this weeks may be different...
also if you're coming, some heads up would be cool, same if you're going to be late or whatever, if you want us to wait etc. get in touch.
i'll PM my mobile number on request (just don't want it public ... :] )
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Post by gman1987 on Feb 24, 2011 21:16:36 GMT
Well i turned up late and I couldn't find anyone lol gods knows. i'll get their on time next week
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Post by misame on May 2, 2011 8:05:29 GMT
Jim PM me your number plz
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Post by Joe Rogan on May 2, 2011 10:49:50 GMT
Why are you a guest? Guests shouldnt be allowed to post :S
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